When Don decided to play Narukamis

Rawkobo wrote:Alright. So it would look something like this?

+1 Red River
-1 Rapid-Fire
-3 Youtsu
+3 Raien

-1 Vermillion
-1 Breakthrough
+2 Thunder Break

Rawkobo wrote:Only way to describe this deck.

Grade 0s (17)
1x Spark-Kid Dragoon
4x Demonic Dragon Nymph, Seiobo
4x Old Dragon Mage
4x Djinn of the Poison Mind
4x Yellow Gem Carbuncle

Grade 1s (15)
3x Lightning of Hope, Helena -1
3x Rapid-Fire Wyvern -1
3x Lizard Soldier, Youtsu -3
3x Red River Dragoon +1
3x Dragon Guard Garudo +1

Consider: +2 Raien

Grade 2s (11)
3x Curse Gun Wyvern
2x Dragonic Deathscythe
3x Demonic Dragon War Ogre, Carla
3x Thunder Storm Dragoon

Grade 3s (7)
3x Dragon Kaiser Vermillion +1
4x Breakthrough Dragon -1

Thinking of changing two things atm:
a) Drop one Rapid-Fire for another Helena/Red River
b) Changing my g3 allotment

wat do

Johnny Raptor wrote:

Rawkobo wrote:Only way to describe this deck.

Grade 0s (17)
1x Spark-Kid Dragoon
4x Demonic Dragon Nymph, Seiobo
4x Old Dragon Mage
4x Djinn of the Poison Mind
4x Yellow Gem Carbuncle

Grade 1s (15)
3x Lightning of Hope, Helena -1
3x Rapid-Fire Wyvern -1
3x Lizard Soldier, Youtsu -3
3x Red River Dragoon +1
3x Dragon Guard Garudo +1

Consider: +2 Raien

Grade 2s (11)
3x Curse Gun Wyvern
2x Dragonic Deathscythe
3x Demonic Dragon War Ogre, Carla
3x Thunder Storm Dragoon

Grade 3s (7)
3x Dragon Kaiser Vermillion +1
4x Breakthrough Dragon -1

Thinking of changing two things atm:
a) Drop one Rapid-Fire for another Helena/Red River
b) Changing my g3 allotment

wat do

Annnnnd done with the fixes I'd make.

Johnny Raptor wrote:>You doubt my changes
>I've tested the same changes a lot
>Gets good results

Uh.

Okay then.

Johnny Raptor wrote:The thing is, I disagree with maining /2/ Limit Break!! Vanguards. Reason being: 2 of them gets cluster-fucky as is, and you don't want to dead-draw what's basically a 10K Vanilla on the side-lanes.

They clog? News to me, I never seem to have too many/

Here's the thing as to /why/ I recommend Breakthrough:

Put an 8K Booster behind it, you have a Royal Paladin/Gold Paladin/10K Vanguard MURDERER.

Even a 6K booster behind it gives you the CORRECT numbers to actually hit a Cross-Ride, which is what you REALLY need to concentrate on doing in the long-run of things.

So it's inferior to Thunder Break here? Thunder Break goes over the number and with triggers and Photon Bomber it's ridiculous.

Now, my problem with Thunder Break Dragon is that it's a 10K Vanguard, all while in the meta of 20K Columns being so common, it's not even funny. 11K saves lives, and will still be a very preferential number. Yes, the 1K makes that much of a dramatic difference, mind-blowing right?

No, I already knew that, it's just irrelevant because you're comparing 1 10 ks.

Anyway, the Desert Gunner recommendation is perfectly valid because you /want/ to Vermillion Thunderbolt the soonest you can do it, which'll unleash hell on the opponent. Once that happens, they're going to have to bank on intercepts because Vermillion denied their card advantage heavily, more-so if they actually had to guard against it. The Desert Gunners kick in because they seal the intercepts, which is basically a +5K to your side since no intercept can occur, thus meaning ultimate despair as they have to waste MORE of their hand to prevent themselves from actually LOSING.

You want to do it soon? You don't say? Gunner's a WIN MOAR kinda card. If you're winning, you don't need it, if you're losing, it's not helpful usually. Much better on paper thanin practice.

Yes, the gunners are dead early-game. But so is practically 68% of the card pool too. Does that mean don't run it? Hell no. Especially when the gunners are on 7K and 9K, which are good bodies for units like those two.

They're dead early game and Shiden is dead late game. Raien tends to be a bit dead mid game and I've yet to see it used in any sort of clencher.

Thunder Break Dragon, ultimately, isn't something I'd run ALONG with Vermillion, because THAT offers more dead stuff in the long run, while Breakthrough and Vermillion together are murderers against 10K Vanguards. 11K Vanguards are no problem either, since even a pathetic 5K boost can put Breakthrough to 17K column, thus hitting the right number to not only smack 11K, but to also punch Majesty Lord Blaster.

It's never dead because if you're not taking damage, they're losing. Even a 6K boost can put Thunder Break too the 21 line which is also a VERY important line. It can easily get to 23/25 as well, the former being a line and the latter putting much more pressure on the opponent to guard in fear of triggers. Thunder Break is so much better than Breakthrough and there's no reason to main Breakthrough before Thunder Break, even in preference. The whole "2 limit breaks clog" is bull because if you have 4 Thunder Break and 3 Vermillion, chances are you have 1 to beat on them until your damage is high and gain advantage. The ability to swing over something doesn't matter until you're nearing the late game, so by the time Breakthrough is useful, TBD is as well.

=/

/rant

Rawkobo wrote:Went with Johnny's changes, and so far, the only criticism I've had from anybody is how I played the one game that I played.

That, and all of my triggers were on bottom.

On the note of the g3s, while I understand the argument for TBD, I'm still rolling with Breakthrough because the boost it has in RG typically makes it an 18-20k RG column, which "isn't necessary," but it draws guard drops that are important if you want Vermillion/TBD's Limit Breaks to work. So it's either a) run through three units at once with about 23k to start or b) go for a single unit and have some Blaster Blade "potential."

I'd much rather the full swing, if you don't mind.

Rawkobo wrote:
On the note of the g3s, while I understand the argument for TBD, I'm still rolling with Breakthrough because the boost it has in RG typically makes it an 18-20k RG column, which "isn't necessary," but it draws guard drops that are important if you want Vermillion/TBD's Limit Breaks to work. So it's either a) run through three units at once with about 23k to start or b) go for a single unit and have some Blaster Blade "potential."

I'd much rather the full swing, if you don't mind.

Rawkobo wrote:
The main problem I'm still having with Narus, no matter how lucky I am or who I play, comes down to two things: timing and durability. With TBD and Vermillion both in the deck, it's easy to drop a g3 LB ride like nobody's business. However, with both of them in the deck, the opponent easily counterplays you by keeping you from getting damage on your side so you can best use TBD during your turn, or drop all their rearguards with Vermillion.

No one does that, because trying to win in one turn while your opponent has 3 damage isn't a smart move in the slightest, and your main VG should be Vermillion until you use Thunderbolt.

So it becomes a conflict between the two, because TBD is good to an extent, but it's still a 10k Vanguard, and that was pretty costly in game 2 of the tournament I played in yesterday. Vermillion's 11k is great for tanking, but it can't really hit as hard, because once it CBs for 3 and drops the rearguards for its one moment of glory, it can only boost up to 21k with the deck's current setup, rendering it close to useless once it drops its effect. So, it's used as an end-game measure, turning it into a dead draw unless you have to ride something to stay afloat.

>One moment of glory
I get Thunderbolt 2 times a game fairly regularly .~.
You should be using Thunderbolt as soon as possible, not as late as possible. That's a playstyle error, not a deck error.

Which brings me to the whole "column" thing that Black and Johnny have been going back and forth about. Yes, I can rely on Curse Gun as an 11k g2 because a) it's a delicious beatstick mid-to-endgame and b) it can be used as an intercept. Yeah, I can see why Breakthrough would kind of suck to have because it's NOT an intercept and it only goes to 20k anyway, so "why bother if the column's going to react the same as 16k?"

Bullshit.

You know as well as I do that triggers + 20k columns all around = gg in a matter of moments. In fact, it's a wonder I don't run NGs at this point with all of the standing and bouncing around they manage to do.

And what difference does a 20K make from a 19K, when you're running approximately 5 11Ks RGs...? 19/20 are interchangeable. You even make a point later on of the 24 line, which, le gasp, 19 still hits. 3 Curse gun, 2 Vermillion, you should consistently have at least 1 high column.

But that's not really the point.

Let's say that a guaranteed pass (meaning the person isn't going to waste a null on it) is at least 24k for an RG. You pull a trigger on your drive checks, that means you're going to pass if you have at least 19k total in an RG column. And what cards manage to get to 19-20k columnwise when running Narus?

Either a) RG Vermillion with a Red River booster, or b) Breakthrough with a Red River booster.

"You don't need an 18-20 because it won't draw anything out a 16 won't, generally."

My a**. 21k is as easily guarded these days as 18-20. So to even suggest that it's not good to have those meaty swings because you've got triggers and it won't really make much of a difference is completely disregarding the mind play of the game.

So you want to run crappy 4 crappy Vanguards in the name of not running 4 crappy Rearguards...? You have 5 front row members and 4 back row members to be sources of 19K which is the same as 20K. Vermillion is a good Rear Grade 3 and you have Curse Guns to add to it. 21K forces either a null or 2 shields on its own, regardless of triggers. 18/19/20 force only 1 in and of themselves. You an't argue triggers with Rearguards because they don't drive check. If a 18/19/20 Vanguard attacks, you can, because there's the fact that THEY will drive check... But a rear guard? No, because they are't having pressure put on them in the same way, they can think of how to put down your Rearguard a lot more easily than your Vanguard swinging for those same numbers.

I'm going back to Breakthroughs.

Same as I said before. Fine, run it how you want, but at least have some solid logic for it other than "I played the deck wrong so Thunder Break is meh".