Proposed Modern Banned List

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    Dae of Judgment
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    Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Dae of Judgment on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:57 am

    Ancestral Vision
    Ancient Den
    Blazing Shoal
    Batterskull
    Chrome Mox
    Cloudpost
    Dark Depths
    Dread Return
    Glimpse of Nature
    Great Furnace
    Green Sun's Zenith
    Hypergenesis
    Mental Misstep
    Punishing Fire
    Pyrite Spellbomb
    Rite of Flame
    Seat of the Synod
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Skullclamp
    Tree of Tales
    Umezawa's Jitte
    Vault of Whispers


    - Bitterblossom
    - Bloodbraid Elf
    - Golgari Grave-Troll
    - Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    - Second Sunrise
    - Seething Song
    - Stoneforge Mystic
    - Sword of the Meek
    - Wild Nacatl

    + Batterskull
    + Pyrite Spellbomb

    Up for discussions
    Ponder & Preordain

    Seriously. 
    Bitterblossom wouldn't be a problem, serisouly.

    Bloodbraid Elf was annoying when Jund was top deck, but Jace, Stoneforge, and Wild Nacatl change that.
    Golgari Grave-Troll isn't going to help Dredge, so it doesn't matter.
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor is only strong in flavor, but not completely strong when they are ways to deal with him.

    Ponder and Preordain just make decks consistent. It isn't going to change them to All-In when the format needs to support tempo. Delver could actually be good, too.
    Second Sunrise is not an issue since Pyrite Spellbomb was the real card that make the deck completely go to time. Oh, and shitty players tried an amazing deck without knowing how to use it.

    Stoneforge is going to decrease in power level with Batterskull and Jitte gone. Swords are going to be the best bet to get with it.

    Sword of the Meek can just come off the list now. Dark Depths isn't in the format.
    Wild Nacalt, this card is going to be a complete test. It is going to warp decks to three colors and limit aggro design. If there was a better card, I would enjoy that, but this card is the best bet for aggro in the format.

    Seething Song.


    Last edited by Dae of Judgment on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:54 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Ashiok on Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:46 am

    I agree with Bitterblossom, potentially BBE, Grave-Troll, Jace, Stoneforge, Sword, and Wild Nacatl.

    Bitterblossom wouldn't make Faeries too good since it's clear that without it they're crap and with it they don't gain enough.

    BBE is only "too good" against control, which WotC seems to want to push out of the format anyway, for whatever reason. It's not even too good there, the only problematic part of a BBE is the spell it cascades into. The 3/2 haste is generally an afterthought.

    Grave-Troll wouldn't even be enough for Dredge; The deck would need Dread Return.

    Jace is only banned due to the stigma attached to him. He'd be fine in modern and is ridiculously hard to tap out for anyway due to the nature of the format. It's not rare to see UWR hold their Planeswalkers until they hit Planeswalker+Cryptic mana.

    Stoneforge with no Batterskull or Jitte is still phenomenally powerful. That's not even a bad thing, though. It actually would help the white decks of the format combat other decks. It also lets Caw-Blade have potentially, which also isn't exactly a bad thing it's just a good midrange-control deck.

    I still don't get why Sword of the Meek is banned. Isn't control aloud any inevitability?

    Unbanning Nacatl doesn't force aggro into three colours. There's currently two viable aggro decks, in Affinity and 5 colour Zoo. Nacatl just makes the latter one actually playable.

    I disagree with unbanning Ponder, Preordain, and Second Sunrise.

    Ponder and Preordain make combo way too consistent. Making Storm and Twin completely consistent for turn 4 kills makes them significantly harder to actually beat. The banning is moreso a nod to the power of the combo decks that play them; Serum Visions is still fine for Delver.

    Second Sunrise wasn't just too slow to execute. It was insanely consistent and was ridiculously hard to interact with without forcing you to work with a sideboard with a limp in every other matchup.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Dae of Judgment on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:38 pm

    At least 1 of either Ponder or Preordain should be allowed. Even with combo going off consistently with Twin, it would still be forced into the Tempo version without relying on the combo due to all the hate that exists. Tempo is on the rise because most of the time, the combo is easier to deal with than the actual ability to go into a control or aggro route. Preordain would probably better a better option, but there should at least be one off of the banned list. And Storm is a deck that could just use the boost from Preordain. Without Rite of Flames or Seething Song, there is no way it will build up the combo as fast as normal to go off turn 3. With Ponder, maybe.

    Second Sunrise was banned to the time strains that occurred. We have no proper data to support the claim, but it has been identified by few with newer players wanting a cheaper deck without actually realizing what it would do. With Second Sunrise in back in the format, though, Ethersworn Canonist and Thorn of Amethyst would see sideboard play more. And the deck doesn't perform against Deathrite and Scooze combination that well. Tron with 4 Relics main can work against the deck. There weren't many top 8-16 records of the deck. It is mostly going to be the same sideboard plan as playing against Storm.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Kyousuke Kousaka on Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:21 pm

    Just found this thread.

    Sword of the Meek has an infinite combo with Thopter Foundry to gain infinite life. So no.

    Caw-Blade coming back would be a huge mistake. Jace can come back, but not the rest of that deck.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Ashiok on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:14 pm

    >infinite life.

    Right, because a ridiculously mana intensive combo that's very slow where the cards are horrible without eachother is bad because it gains "infinite" life if provided infinite turns.

    Why can't control have actual inevitability? Having said that, the combo probably wouldn't even be good enough, it's inconsistent and comes online too late.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Dae of Judgment on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:10 pm

    Kyousuke Kousaka wrote:Just found this thread.

    Sword of the Meek has an infinite combo with Thopter Foundry to gain infinite life. So no.

    Caw-Blade coming back would be a huge mistake. Jace can come back, but not the rest of that deck.

    Melira Pod + Viscera Seer + Kitchen Finks is going to be more consistent than having Sword of the Meek and Thopter Foundry being reliable for too long. And Melira's Toolbox is just a better display to basically an all-answer deck. It is a tool for Control, nothing more.

    Caw-Blade is hardly a strong deck with other decks being in the format as well. It isn't going to be dominant when there are decks that deal with it easier than players can toss out enough answers and control sucks a lot right now.

    And Stoneforge is not going to be all that great without Batterskull. When Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse would play out better. And Wild Nacatl is going to already put enough pressure on a control deck to the point that their threats are nothing until that can use better draw spells.

    Ancestral Vision should stay on the banlist.

    If you want a dominant deck, unban the Artifact Lands, Skullclamp and Mental Misstep. Have fun.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Ashiok on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:45 pm

    Going to make a point that Seething Song should be unbanned too. It's banning was pretty terribly justified in the first place since realistically Storm could very, very rarely go off turn 3, and it's not like other decks can't. Tron can cast turn 3 Karn, which breaks WotC's definition of the turn 4 rule and that hasn't been hit at all. Seething Song just makes Storm a bit more viable.


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    Re: Proposed Modern Banned List

    Post by Dae of Judgment on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:46 pm

    Ashiok wrote:Going to make a point that Seething Song should be unbanned too. It's banning was pretty terribly justified in the first place since realistically Storm could very, very rarely go off turn 3, and it's not like other decks can't. Tron can cast turn 3 Karn, which breaks WotC's definition of the turn 4 rule and that hasn't been hit at all. Seething Song just makes Storm a bit more viable.

    Will change.

    Can WotC give us an exact definition of Turn 4 if they allow Affinity, Infect and Vengeance in the game? I mean, it seems like a 10%-35% in consistency for any deck, including storm.


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