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Jordan, Lich Lord
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    [M14] Garruk, Caller of Beasts

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    [M14] Garruk, Caller of Beasts Empty [M14] Garruk, Caller of Beasts

    Post by .Rai Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:07 pm

    Just saying, the limited edition black-on-black arts are kinda ugly. I can't tell whether this is good or not :S It doesn't look good in Standard at all really. But, you know, Theros; big-a** gods and crap. Who knows, we might get something for Garruk to cheat out, in some sort of Summoning Trap-esque deck. But, obviously, we have no more Thragtusks. So that's a minus to Garruk.

    [M14] Garruk, Caller of Beasts Garruk
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    Post by Ashiok Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:13 pm

    Well, he's far from a Primal Hunter, and he's not close to a Relentless. He's not even as good as Wildspeaker which is almost unarguably worst than the other two forms.

    Looks like Garruk has the interesting albeit shit end of the stick this time round. Still really sweet design though. Turn 1 that new Elf thing, turn 2 Farseek, turn 3 Thragtusk, turn 4 this into Worldspine Wurm, living the dream.
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    Post by .Rai Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:15 pm

    I swear that's an actual Thragtusk behind him in the art.
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    Post by Rodrigo Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:16 pm

    Another commander card.

    And boy, it does WONDERS in my deck at least.

    But that's it.
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    Post by Ashiok Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:18 pm

    .Rai wrote:I swear that's an actual Thragtusk behind him in the art.
    Nah, looks like the generic beast token, which I do believe Thragtusk was based off of so it bears some similarities.
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    Post by Jordan, Lich Lord Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:09 pm

    He looks interesting. No where near as good as the other Garuk, but if we get some Really Big Guys he could be usefull.

    I want the Black version though Smile
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    Post by HSektor Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:16 pm

    It may be the worst Garruk for any other format than EDH, but still a good one. It may see some fringe play...or maybe Theros will have some sweet ramp cards.
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    Post by Jordan, Lich Lord Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:20 pm

    You know, it says something good about Garruk that this is his worst one Smile
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    Post by Jordan, Lich Lord Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:26 pm

    Aw man, do you know how expensive these Black Walkers are going to be? Im never going to own one Sad
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    Post by .Rai Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:36 pm

    Jordan, Lich Lord wrote:Aw man, do you know how expensive these Black Walkers are going to be? Im never going to own one Sad

    Considering that they're Limited Edition, and will probably only exist in one shop in San Diego, I'd say quite expensive.
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    Post by Capricorn El Cid Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:45 am

    Think that Burning-Tree Emissary + Zhur-Taa Druid in any numbers you want
    Into Garruk -> Craterhoof Behemoth...

    Delicious
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    Post by Pack Rat Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:59 am

    Geez, guys, don't try to valuate it into the current standard, it'll be in it for a very short time, then Innistrad rotates. Anyways, card is good. +1 can be as much as 4-5 card draw per turn in a creature-heavy deck. -3 is technically worse Dramatic Entrance (1 mana more expensive) but you can still drop Garruk, -3 him, drop something like Armada Wurm for protection and then keep spamming +1 for massive advantage. And well, ultimate is ultimate - pretty much wins you the game the moment it hits.

    He'll be really good, mark my words.
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    Post by Ashiok Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:36 pm

    His -3 does nothing, since at that mana you can cast whatever is in your hand.

    None of his abilities actually protect him without being redundant initially.

    And frankly, you can't play a critical mass of big green creatures and Garruks and expect your curve to work consistently.

    He's bad in current standard, and he'll be bad post-rotation.
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    Post by Kyousuke Kousaka Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:06 pm

    Ætherling wrote:His -3 does nothing, since at that mana you can cast whatever is in your hand.

    None of his abilities actually protect him without being redundant initially.

    And frankly, you can't play a critical mass of big green creatures and Garruks and expect your curve to work consistently.

    He's bad in current standard, and he'll be bad post-rotation.

    You're jumping the gun because we don't know how mana ramp will work with Theros.

    For the time being though, yeah, no, except in EDH, where everything's made up and the mana costs don't matter, this is generally not that great at all, especially in its color, where cheating out lots of things should be a piece of cake.
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    Post by Ashiok Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:21 pm

    How could mana ramp work in a way where you're not just better casting a fatty as opposed to having this clunky fucker in your deck?
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    Post by .Rai Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:24 pm

    You don't really gain any investment from it. With 6 mana, that's a lot for a card that most of the time will just give you marginal advantage you don't need at that point, or cheat things into play that you should already be casting. In order to be doing something powerful with Garruk, you have to cheat something that's incredibly expensive so that you're cheating things out that are /more/ expensive than Garruk.

    Problem is that expensive things are also inconsistent.
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    Post by Kyousuke Kousaka Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:26 pm

    It's still a possibility. We're probably going to see something that makes use of this; things in core sets are designed with a format in mind, in several cases.
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    Post by Ashiok Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:36 pm

    And sometimes no matter how cool some of their interactions may seem (Ajani, Caller of the Pride is a perfect example) they do just suck because they don't do things good enough.
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    Post by Kyousuke Kousaka Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:44 pm

    ...Which doesn't really deter my point because what I'm saying is that people are going to try it out anyway, even if it's theorized to suck, because perhaps there's a combo in it that we don't see or something.

    This happens literally every time I bother to look at a new set. There are cards that look okay/not necessarily that great and then all of a sudden, there's a breakthrough. Really didn't think Reckoner was that remarkable, for example, until everyone started talking about the loop.

    He'll find a place in Theros format, I'm sure of it.
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    Post by Ashiok Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 pm

    Reckoner is remarkable for everything but the loop. s:

    Why would Garruk see play because of Theros? His entire design is just too clunky for a deck.
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    Post by .Rai Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:55 pm

    I'm sure he has interactions, probably ones that will see play as soon as Theros comes out; in a vacuum, he's still the worst competitive Garruk.

    Considering that one of the product descriptions of Theros was essentially 'populated with mythical creatures and gods', the chances that we don't have big fatties is virtually null. Probably a big mythic one that's worth cheating out this way.
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    Post by Kyousuke Kousaka Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:08 pm

    He's the worst competitive Garruk in this format.

    We still don't know what mana bases and whatnot are truly going to look like in September, so it's thick-headed to stick to the pace of this format, which is one of the most fixed in terms of mana in ages, to judge this card.

    Right now, yes, he's not that impressive unless you look at midrange and think that maybe, for one reason or another, you'll have a use for him. Meanwhile, we still don't know enough about Theros to judge if 6 cmc to have two cards on the table that may or may not pose an issue to maintaining board polarity on your end if your opponent chooses to drop both is a bad thing or not.
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    Post by Ashiok Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:36 pm

    There's no fixing in M14 and RTR block's lands are good enough to sustain 3 colour decks, that's a perfect example of what mana bases will be like come rotation.

    I'm not judging him by the format, the card is generally weak especially for 6 mana. They would need some serious library manipulation to go with some good ramp to make this see any real play.
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    Post by HSektor Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:14 am

    Ætherling wrote:There's no fixing in M14 and RTR block's lands are good enough to sustain 3 colour decks, that's a perfect example of what mana bases will be like come rotation.

    I'm not judging him by the format, the card is generally weak especially for 6 mana. They would need some serious library manipulation to go with some good ramp to make this see any real play.

    So, turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 2cmc ramp spell + mana dork and turn 3 play him? Doesn't seems like "serious library manipulation" to me. We don't know the commons and uncommons from M14 yet and Theros.

    Mana dorks and ramp growth-esque spells in RTR-Theros standard card pool? Doesn't seems impossible to me.
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    Post by Ashiok Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:01 am

    And playing him over any other green thing there is one of the least proactive things to be doing. Not to mention that hand requires multiple relatively specific cards.

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